Read first 200 issues of Fantastic Four (1963)

I recently read the first 200 issues of Fantastic Four (the "golden age" of Marvel Comics) and discussed on my reading blog (First 200 Issues of FF)

Marvel Comics - "Shattered Heroes" Reading Order

Reading order for "Shattered Heroes", Marvel Comics - October 2011 to Feb 2012.

Please go to: Awesome "Shattered Heroes" Explanation/Links/Ordering where the list was drawn from as there is an issue by issue review and explanation for the storyline.  My list is "off" one unit, as I started counting at "1" in stead of "0", and I've added the year of first issue to the comic titles.

Link to Marvel site for "Shattered Heroes" - Marvel.com Website for "Shattered Heroes"

Order	Title	Issue #
1	Fear Itself (2011)	7
2	Fear Itself (2011)	7.1
3	Fear Itself (2011)	7.2
4	Fear Itself (2011)	7.3
5	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	1
6	Avengers Academy (2010)	21
7	Invincible Iron Man (2008)	510
8	Invincible Iron Man (2008)	511
9	Invincible Iron Man (2008)	512
10	Invincible Iron Man (2008)	513
11	Invincible Iron Man (2008)	514
12	Invincible Iron Man (2008)	515
13	Journey Into Mystery (2011)	631
14	Journey Into Mystery (2011)	632
15	Journey Into Mystery (2011)	633
16	Journey Into Mystery (2011)	634
17	Journey Into Mystery (2011)	635
18	Journey Into Mystery (2011)	636
19	Mighty Thor (2011)	8
20	Mighty Thor (2011)	9
21	Mighty Thor (2011)	10
22	Mighty Thor (2011)	11
23	Mighty Thor (2011)	12
24	Captain America (2011)	6
25	Captain America (2011)	7
26	Captain America (2011)	8
27	Captain America (2011)	9
28	Captain America (2011)	10
29	Avengers Academy (2010)	22
30	New Avengers (2010)	16.1
31	Avengers (2010)	18
32	New Avengers (2010)	17
33	New Avengers (2010)	18
34	New Avengers (2010)	19
35	New Avengers (2010)	20
36	Avengers (2010)	19
37	Avengers (2010)	20
38	Avengers (2010)	21
39	Avengers (2010)	22
40	Avengers (2010)	23
41	New Avengers (2010)	21
42	New Avengers (2010)	22
43	New Avengers (2010)	23
44	Avengers (2010)	24
45	Avengers Academy (2010)	23
46	Avengers Academy (2010)	24
47	Avengers Academy (2010)	25
48	Avengers Academy (2010)	26
49	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	2
50	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	3
51	Battle Scars (2012)	1
52	Battle Scars (2012)	2
53	Battle Scars (2012)	3
54	Battle Scars (2012)	4
55	Battle Scars (2012)	5
56	Battle Scars (2012)	6
57	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	4
58	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	5
59	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	6
60	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	7
61	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	8
62	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	9
63	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	10
64	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	11
65	Fear Itself: The Fearless (2011)	12
66	Defenders (2012)	1
67	Defenders (2012)	2
68	Defenders (2012)	3
69	The Incredible Hulk (2011)	1
70	The Incredible Hulk (2011)	2
71	The Incredible Hulk (2011)	3
72	The Incredible Hulk (2011)	4
73	The Incredible Hulk (2011)	5
74	Defenders: Starnge Heroes (2011)	1
75	Defenders: The Coming of The Defenders (2011)	1
76	Defenders: Tournament of Heroes (2012)	1

An Alternative Perspective to issue numbering

This site (Comic Book Numbering) is trying to make sense out of the start-restart-renumbering that is being done to long-term comic titles (Marvel is the most flagrant violator, but let's see what DC does when their re-launched titles reach issue counts that would have been very significant, like #1000, if the initial series' numbering was continued).

I've argued that this messing with numbers is a bad sign - it signals a change from a long-term view of comic characters to a shorter term view (e.g. 6 issues or so) - which manifests in focusing on shorter storylines, even if it conflicts with the character history, or even if it is limiting in the long term view of the character.  Marketing of graphic novels, which typically collect 4-8 issues of a monthly series in a quality paper, bound format, may be pushing storylines to fit this format.

I don't have any problem with graphic novels - I actually like them.  What I'm concerned about is the change in focus from long-term to short-term, and my ultimate fear that the major companies  eventually stop producing monthly comics.

My basic comparison is a Superman, or Spider-Man vs. a character like Tarzan.  Tarzan has been published in multiple media formats and is a semi-consistent character.  However, aside from the basic "abandoned in the jungle as an infant" origin story, each depiction, each story, is independent an unconnected.  He can get married, he can die, he can start a revolution of animals against humans - all is possible in an uncontrolled character development environment.

Contrast that to monthly comics, which (as Marvel made it's fortune on), can be considered serial storytelling - each month is a continuation in the life and times of character X.  Marvel was revolutionary in the 1960's by connecting their different titles in a single universe - crossovers between books, some of which were very brief and passing, made the world feel "real".  The carryover effects of events provided a depth a Tarzan-type universe can't match.  Think of the Gwen Stacy death (Amazing Spider-Man #121) - long term angst, plot fingers showing up repeatedly over the history of the character of Spiderman.

There are problems with long-term serial storytelling, such as ageing characters (who wants to see a 75 year old Peter Parker swinging around Manhattan, chasing a 105 year old Vulture?).  For creative teams, there is a problem in that they have a significant amount of homework required to fully understand characters before they can take a serious run at a title (e.g. they have to know Uncle Ben's death, Gwen's death, Peter's guilt over both, how to keep a 200 year old Aunt May going...).  Sometimes there might be great stories that can't be told with Spider-man or Superman - their histories won't necessarily allow it, requiring some creativity to make it match, or porting the idea off to another character, or to create a one-shot ("out of continuity") story - the brilliant "What If" series by Marvel provided lots of opportunity to play in an imaginary universe, as did DC's Elseworlds -take what you want from the "real" universe, and branch off into new directions.  Marvel has occasionally created new universes for creators to play in - Marvel Knights allowed for more "adult" geared themes, the Ultimate Universe was a whole-scale re-launch - characters were re-defined from scratch in the present  as opposed to 1960's world.

Thus, while I understand that there is homework required to understand a character, I think that is the price to play in the "big leagues".  Creators are only interested in Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Superman, Batman etc. BECAUSE they are iconic characters.  Having to abide by some consistency-based rules seems to be appropriate.  Making Wonder Woman a lesbian, or having Superman have a psychotic break and kill Batman's whole rogues gallery may be an excellent one-shot, or mini-series idea, but would not match the characters' history, nor prove positive for the long-term "iconicness" of the character.

I'm also convinced that there is a happy medium - you can create a history that is consistent, without being anal in the individual details of every single story ever written.  I think this is where the big companies need to maintain in-house expertise, who can help creative teams understand the relevant issues (the internet helps a lot) that may influence any ideas being contemplated.  Keeping a strong historical consistency with respect to the last 5 years or so suffices, with an awarness of key issues from prior generations (e.g. the death of Gwen and Uncle Ben still being relevant, the almost-marriage of Aunt May to Doctor Octopus less so).  The referencing to recent history provides the feeling of belonging for the readers, and provides the depth to the characters, and the momentum to the serial-storytelling medium, and consistency with the "serious" elements of the longer term provide the necessary "iconic" status earned by the characters over time.

The comic world is varied, there are options for creators that didn't exist when the "iconic" characters were created - lots of smaller companies, lots of ability to do owner-created characters, direct-to-customer online methods to do large-scale comics virtually for free.

However, my opinion is not universal - here is a site (http://www.mania.com/5-ways-comic-books-can-fix-issue-numbering_article_116150.html )that argues that the messing with issue numbers (re-launches and re-numbering later to get anniversary issues) is best handled by moving toward a mini-series driven universe - drop long-term issue numbers for the most part and provide new #1's to new creative teams for their 6, 10 or 25 issue runs - making it very clear that they are free to re-vision the characters during their run.

This model may provide interesting outcomes - e.g. there may be 3 or 4 different creative teams on a single character with three or four different views and takes.  I think that would be very interesting for a few years, but I suspect that the ultimate outcome would be a real diffusion of the definitions of the characters - less of an iconic "feel" for Superman, Batman or Spider-Man if there are lots of different views, likely mutually incompatible with each other.

The monthly comics provide a re-visit to the "real" Peter Parker, the "real" Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent, which keeps the key aspects of the character intact.  Ultimate Spiderman is great - I loved the run, and like the new (non-Peter) Ultimate SpiderMan, but it is a new character, it is not the "real", 616 Marvel Universe Spider-Man.  I think this is great - both can exist, sell and have fan bases - why not?  This is the best of both worlds - a re-visioned character AND the iconic one.  I like this a lot more than the damage Marvel has done with the "real" Spider-Man ("Sins Past", "Spider-totem", "Clone Saga", "One More Day", "Brand New Day") where they've significantly messed with the character history (e.g. chipped away at the iconic character), which only servers to make the character seem much less "real" and much more a marketing tool.  As serious as the money and marketing issues are, they shouldn't be so overt that they change the characteristics of the product.

Avengers Numbering - Race for #600 (or maybe #700?)

Avengers (1963) #1

Marvel's many-membered team, The Avengers, has had several starts and stops over time, and has re-launched several off-shoot titles.  What I'd call the original Avengers ended with issue #503 at the end of the "Avengers:Disassembled" storyline, where the Scarlet Witch caused some havoc, and uttered the iconic line "No more mutants", which greatly affected the Marvel Universe and, in particular, the X-line of comics.
Earlier, the original series (Avengers (1963) ended with issue #402, as one of the casualties of the aborted "Heroes Reborn" experiment of 1996-07 (13 issues) where Marvel rented out several of its key characters to a group of artists to re-launch them.

Avengers (1996) #1

Avengers (1998) #1

Avengers (1998) re-introduced the Avengers to the normal (616 Universe) Marvel Universe as part of "Heroes Return". This series ran for 84 issues, with "double-numbering" starting with issue #41 (double numbering is 1998 series as one number, and  that issue number plus 415, which includes the 1963, and 1996 Avengers titles with the 1998 series)  with #84/#499 the last issue of the 1998 series.  A very short Avengers (2004) series started with issue #500 and ran to the end of "Avengers:Disassembled" in issue #503.  There was a wrap-up issue, "Avengers Finale", which could be considered #504.

Avengers #500 (2004)

Avengers #503

Avengers Finale #504

Avengers (2010) #1

After that, Marvel can probably choose one of several options to get to #600 - in fact, if you add "New Avengers (2005)" and "Mighty Avengers (2007)", you already have passed issue #600, as there are 64 issues of "New Avengers' and 34 issues of "Mighty Avengers".  In 2010, Marvel re-launched New Avengers (2010) with a new #1.  Thus, even if "only" New Avengers is counted in the "Avengers" total, we just passed issue #600 (would be issue #33 of New Avengers (2010), or #32 if you count "Avengers Finale" in the total).

Uncanny Avengers (2012) #1 Canonical Avengers Series
	Start	End	Total	"Full Avengers"
The Avengers (1963)	1	402	402	1 to 402
Avengers (1996)	1	13	13	403 to 415
The Avengers (1998)	1	84	84	416 to 499
Avengers (2004)	500	504	5	500 to 503
Avengers Finale (2005)	1	1	1	N/A
Avengers (2010)	1	Ongoing	33+	504-537+
Avengers Assemble (2012)	1	25	25
Uncanny Avengers (2012)	1	Ongoing	1+

As of about right now (October 2012), there are 537 issues (up through Avengers (2010) #33).  Thus, assuming that Avengers (2010), Avengers Assemble (2012) and Uncanny Avengers (2012) all continue monthly runs, each month add 3 issues to that total - to get to 600 issues, that would require 67 issues, or about 22 months (about August 2014 could yield an Avengers #600).

Other Potential "Add-In" series
	Start	End	Total
West Coast Avengers (1984)	1	4	4
West Coast Avengers (1985)	1	102	102
New Avengers (2005)	1	64	64
New Avengers (2010)	1	31+	Ongoing
Mighty Avengers (2007)	1	36	36
Dark Avengers (2009)	1	16	16
Secret Avengers (2010)	1	34+	Ongoing
Avengers v. X-Men (2012)	0	12	13

West Coast Avengers (1984) #1	West Coast Avengers (1985) #1	New Avengers (2005) #1
New Avengers (2010)	The Mighty Avengers (2007) #1	Dark Avengers (2009) #1
Secret Avengers (2010) #1	Avengers vs. X-Men (2012)

The wildcard would be whether or not they add in "Avengers Finale (2005)" in the count or not, or even "Avengers v. X-Men (2012)" (though this will bring in whether or not to add in the zero issue).  You could also add in any one of Mighty Avengers (2007), Dark Avengers (2009) and/or Secret Avengers (2010), and really make the call anytime your marketing department wants a big cover issue.  You could also add in New Avengers (both series) and Mighty Avengers, and skip #600 entirely and focus on an upcoming #700, or if you are in a hurry, add in the West Coast Avengers and focus on #800.


There would also be a plethora of one-shot issues and mini-series that could be considered canonical and included to make some magic round number of issues, and a number of "0.1", "1.5" and/or "-1" odd-numbered issues to fill in blanks.

Again, it is difficult to see what the "big plan" is for Marvel with respect to monthly comics.  Avengers is one of the key comics in the line, so what does having such a disjoint history add, with the exception of making it easy for Marvel to "fake" anniversary issues to coincide with whatever creative team, marketing opportunity or key storyline needs one?

Update: Marvel Now
Avengers (2013)  #1 to ?  
New Avengers (2013) #1 to ?
Avengers A.I. (2013) #1 to ?
Avengers Undercover (2013) #1 to ?
Avengers World (2013) #1 to ?